Trakehners Voluntarily Tested for CA, LFS & SCID

I'll let other SO's talk about their horses if they so choose, but IMO this is an important area of TK's to lead. So much so that I tested all my mares as well as the stallion. Now that all have tested clear any future prospective stallion for a Taz daughter will be crossed off the list if they're not genetically proven clear. Will be interested to hear other Mare Owners' thoughts.

While I know some SO's say they've not been asked about these tests, suspect that will largely be the case UNTIL the first horse gets rejected from the OSB b/c it's a carrier. Then the discussion will get lively right quick.

I am planning on testing Tate eventually but there were far more important things to pay for that cost $$ right at this second (like his FEI passport for one so he can run Red Hills this year) - and I say that because the Arab is WAY back in his pedigree (I think it is 5 or more generations). I actually plan on testing my Oskar mare before Tate as she is much closer to the Arab gene and would be more likely to be a carrier (although I suspect that we will find little in the breed unless it is from an Arab mare/sire - as in, the dam or sire of the immediate horse is an Arab). I say that because the big hitters (such as Ramses as in Tizgane's case) are showing to not be carriers... there's the glory in a smaller breed, we will hit the big names sooner than later . Does that make sense?

Now don't get me wrong... I do believe in testing and do plan on it this breeding season!

Anissa, I completely agree. IF we find instances of CA (or LFS or SCID) suspect it will be in horses with pure Arabian in the first 3-4 generations (reading some of the Arabian threads there were stallions suspected as "sources" appearing in grandsire or great grandsire positions via sire lines; if thru mares as 2nd or 3rd dam sire).

The Anglo-Arabians and perhaps even Shagya's b/c of the dilution of 'pure' Arabian blood are looking like real long shots as carriers (again, focusing on CA as that's what led to the change in corporate regs). Makes total sense to test your mare first given proximity of Arabian in her pedigree vs Tate's (looks further than 5 gens; maybe 6?).

Yeah! It made sense! And yeah, it may be even further back... I was going off the top of my head, without looking at the pedigree.

Very happy to see this today on FB:


KD Trakehners
Results from the "3 Panel Testing" on all of KD's Stallions are back. Everybody is cleared and good to go for the breeding season !!!

Prelude By Mozart came back clear for all 3 as well!

http://americantrakehner.com/Forms/GeneticTesting.htm

Now that 2013 inspection season is starting, please make sure to familiarize yourselves with the ATA policy already in effect:

3. Effective November 3, 2012 before entering the OSB ALL newly approved stallions must be DNA tested through the ATA's certified process to verify that they are not carriers of CA, SCID or LFS, unless their parents have both tested negative for all 3 mutations by the ATA's certified process.

Those considering presenting a stallion w/b wise to test prior to nominating him for inspection (unless both parents have been tested negative for all 3 mutations by the ATA's certified process). The probability of carriers is low but the cost of testing is much less than nominating & presenting (not to mention x-rays) a youngster then having his approval rescinded b/c of carrier status.

4. Effective November 3, 2012 before entering the OSB or PSB all mares that are Arabian, Anglo-Arabian or Shagya Arabian or have an Arabian, Anglo-Arabian or Shagya Arabian in the first 3 generation of their pedigree must be tested through the ATA's certified system to verify they are not carriers of CA, LFS or SCID unless their parents have both tested negative for these 3 mutations, by the certified system the ATA has established for this purpose.

The same applies for those planning to present mares (with the noted Arabian heritage) for OSB/PSB inspection as they cannot be admitted to either studbook w/o testing clean for all 3 genetic mutations (unless their parents have both tested negative).

There wasn't a lot of discussion about this testing after the initial round @ the annual meeting when members voted to change the corporate regulations to provide comfort & confidence to our breeders that they will not pass these disorders on to future generations. However, now that it will directly affect (some) mare & (all) stallion owners wishing to have their breeding stock approved in 2013, it's important to understand these policies. If you have any questions, contact the ATA office.

Are all Verband stallions being tested? Or is CA unique to Arabians in NA?

Summer has Burnus on her sire's side and there is Shagya in the back on the dam line. She is related to the Verband stallion, Sedar, and the late NA stallion, Bukephalos.

sallyannmaas wrote:Are all Verband stallions being tested? Or is CA unique to Arabians in NA?

Summer has Burnus on her sire's side and there is Shagya in the back on the dam line. She is related to the Verband stallion, Sedar, and the late NA stallion, Bukephalos.

The Verband has not issued a ruling or recommendation - so the short answer is, no they are not currently being tested. However, the EU Shagya registry as I understand it IS requiring clear tests and there are labe in EU set up for this testing so no, CA is not restricted to US Arabian pop.

I think Burnus is in Summer's 7th generation.

The Shagya on the very bottom is back that far or further back.

I know of a Shagya stallion in my area whose owner would like to present him for ATA approval. I'll let her know about the regulation.

Sally, I alreads spoke to Shelley about this and she is determined to get his performance done first, which makes sense. She and her friend were in Woodland last week for the party at Four Star Farm. Really nice folks!

As for the Verband - no testing here, and not coming either. Makes no sense.

. . . and done the right thing.

http://www.americantrakehner.com/absolutenp/anmviewer.asp?a=1684&z=1

Glad to see the list growing. It's a $200 test...$200 isn't pocket change, but it's certainly not expensive when you're talking about horses and breeding. Seems absolutely crazy to me that someone wouldn't have the testing done before they breed their stallion or mare again.

TennantSportHorses wrote:Glad to see the list growing. It's a $200 test...$200 isn't pocket change, but it's certainly not expensive when you're talking about horses and breeding. Seems absolutely crazy to me that someone wouldn't have the testing done before they breed their stallion or mare again.

My feelings exactly Sean. In fact I chose to test both my stallion and all broodmares - which means you don't need to test Xena before breeding her (or having her inspected, hint - hint) as both Taz and Symphonie are clear. However, unless you breed to a pure TB, you DO need the SO to provide proof of a clear CA-LFS-SCID before breeding or you'll be left holding the bag for the $200 it's gonna cost you to put that foal in an OSB.

I saw the inspections this year only come as far South as North Carolina...so it will likely have to wait another year!

Sean - I tried to co-host an inspection at a farm near me with some people who have become VERY interested in the TK breed and would even become mbets even though they do not own a TK. Their facility is fantastic and they are great hosts. They stand the Ret GP stallion Grand Filou. But I was told there were only 4 mares in FL nominated and 3 were in far south FL. The other was my mare.

Will the ATA put a little gold star (or whatever) on a stallion's page to indicate if he has been tested? Or mention it in the "about" section on his page? Or will mare owners have to remember to ask the stallion owners?

Or of course indicate that a stallion doesn't need to be tested :P:

JRR wrote:Will the ATA put a little gold star (or whatever) on a stallion's page to indicate if he has been tested? Or mention it in the "about" section on his page? Or will mare owners have to remember to ask the stallion owners?

Or of course indicate that a stallion doesn't need to be tested :P:

Good question and already done
http://americantrakehner.com/Stallions/index.htm

One note: there are 2 stallions that need to be updated as CLEAR:
1. Prelude by Mozart (tested clear)
2. Semper Fidelis (exempt b/c both sire & dam tested clear)

*One other note: the full TB stallions do not need to be tested; not sure if they'll be given the same CLEAR designation or N/A since it's not found in TB's.

I seem to be one of the every few that see no value in this whatsoever, in fact, I see a huge punishment coming towards people that use outside rare, and much needed genetics. What I see is a shot in the knee ...

If it wasn't for Czantiago, NONE of this would have transpired and you guys would never even think about "doing the right thing" twice.

Maren wrote:I seem to be one of the every few that see no value in this whatsoever, in fact, I see a huge punishment coming towards people that use outside rare, and much needed genetics. What I see is a shot in the knee ...

If it wasn't for Czantiago, NONE of this would have transpired and you guys would never even think about "doing the right thing" twice.

Of course we wouldn't think about it twice (not even once) before Czantiago - because before that we had zero awareness of CA. However, the fact is we are aware now and the ATA requires testing of horses pure or with high % of AA, Shagya and/or ox (TB's are not carriers) before entering the OSB. Opinions will differ (ours certainly do) on whether this is prudent or responsible but it was discussed and voted into the ATA bylaws at last year's annual meeting.

As to any cooling on the use of much-needed genetics why should it affect use of any stallion? For $200 the SO can provide proof the stallion does not carry the recessive gene for this neurologic condition. If the stallion owner refuses to test the mare can still be bred to said stallion, but MO must take on the $200 test in order to register the offspring.

As a mare owner who registers all my offspring, presents mares for inspection and any colt good enough for stallion approval I have to wonder why if a SO won't test. It may be the SO believes this is much-ado about nothing - and that's their prerogative. But my prerogative is to bypass that stallion - and I will. As far as I'm concerned regardless of genetic value no stallion is worth jeopardizing the resultant foal's chances of entering the OSB.

Well said. I breed only to approved stallions. Register all the foals. Have stock inspected when old enough. I have an unusually high percentage of TB blood in my mare base. If this had even a remote chance of being a TB issue, those mares would be tested or they wouldn't be bred. It would be heartbreaking to go through the expensive and emotional process of breeding the mare, nurturing the pregnancy, and then have a foal with those diseases. Not worth the financial or emotional investment for me. I think we have to work hard at keeping the known health issues out of our breed if at all possible. I am going to have to see on the ATA site that the stallion tests clear or my "wish" horses will get crossed off the list.

Kim- does the test also apply to if one uses Verband approved stallions (Bonaparte AA is the one that immediately came to mind)?

Fiona, from what I've read then yes, the foal would have to be tested if by a Verband stallion.

TennantSportHorses wrote:Fiona, from what I've read then yes, the foal would have to be tested if by a Verband stallion.

Correct - also if your mare has not been tested (unless she's full TB or is clear by virtue of both parents having tested clear).

Or if the Arab is more than 4 generations back At least the way I've understood it. The theory for the length in Arab blood is because if it is that far back, it has "washed out" of the breeding gene pool by that point.

I straddle the fence. I personally am very opposed to knowingly breeding issues. I was involved with the QH and App industry for a while and still have friends in it. I remember the whole "Impressive" issue with HYPP and the hoopla that was caused when they started doing the N/N etc. I liken this issue with that issue. (I know different disease but same fear and concerns).

I am fully on board with testing those horses that are coming into the bloodlines and would not KNOWINGLY breed a mare or stallion that was positive for CA. I also will have Tate tested even though the Arab in him is so far back it is really laughable - there is far more TB in him than Arab! I also feel it is more important to test the boys than the girls (with the codicil unless the mare is Arab, half Arab or 1/4 Arab).

And yes, if the stallion is a European approved stallion or even a deceased stallion that has Arab in the 4 generations, the foal will need to be tested in order to go into the OSB or PSB.