Stallion Suggestions

Hello! I thought I'd post this just out of curiousity. I know who I want to breed Xena too next year(and have enough stallions on my list for 30 years haha!)

If you were picking a stallion to breed her to, who would you pick? For any discipline, whoever you think would produce the very best foals with her.

Here's more info on her:
http://tennantsporthorses.com/syndicate-news/available-syndicates/kyle-carter-and-sayyida/

Curious to see what you all think!

You know I'm gonna go with more blood. Going to have to watch size, body depth and throat latch. All-in-all look for something w/elegance and (again) blood. In no particular order I'd look at:

A Fine Romance xx
Coconut Grove xx
Halimy Go
Sea Accounts xx
Sea Elephant (Lion) xx
Virginian Sky
White Tie Tryst xx

First & last not ATA-approved but AFR is absolutely proven producer of UL sporthorses and w/b well worth considering. Like Sea Lion's type but no idea what he's gonna throw. Sky has only 1 offspring (that I'm aware of) so again, like the blood & body type but not proven. Will be interested to see what everyone else thinks.

http://www.w2holsteiners.com/w2-stallions.html

Hunter - and pray for a filly

Although I think Halimey Go would be good too.

Or Bonaparte AA for that matter.

JRR wrote:http://www.w2holsteiners.com/w2-stallions.html

Hunter - and pray for a filly

Although I think Halimey Go would be good too.

Or Bonaparte AA for that matter.

Lovely horse but having been in advertising all my life I know an ad that stays away from specifics b/c there aren't any. He was approved same year as Taz - 2001. All the hype is about his performance test; nothing about what he did in competition. Red flag #1.

On the good side it says he was ranked 26th on the 2011 USEF list of eventing sires but fails to mention the "4 successful offspring are still quite young and beginning their careers". Checking out photos of offspring, all that's shown are foals. Red flag #2.

There may be a simple explanation (website out of date for example) but I want to see specifics not just general claims. Absolutely adore his sire Heraldik xx (bought a mare w/him as dam sire specifically to get this blood) but based on his website info Hunter doesn't blow my skirt up.

A Fine Romance had 5 offspring competing in the Ocala HT a couple of weeks ago. He also has a jumper at GP. Can't argue with that.


Typing at the same time as Kim

I agree, Hunter is a bit of a shot in the dark, but if you had to have fresh and wanted that blood, then it's not a stupid gamble. (He's 19th on the list of sires and there's a video of Henry on the news page).

But then again I wanted Sean to breed Xena to Le Prince des Bois or Duke of Hearts xx

oh, and also on the news page - interesting!

W2 is proud to welcome home the 4 year old stallion son of Hunter, Handsome Devil, from Germany. Devil is out of the Tin Rocco mare, Gerda, so combines two of the world's best eventing lines with Heraldik and Tin Rocco in his pedigree. Devil competed successfully in young horse jumping competition in Germany and will make his California debut on the eventing circuit in early 2012. Please join us in welcoming Devil home!

JRR wrote:A Fine Romance had 5 offspring competing in the Ocala HT a couple of weeks ago. He also has a jumper at GP. Can't argue with that.


Typing at the same time as Kim

I agree, Hunter is a bit of a shot in the dark, but if you had to have fresh and wanted that blood, then it's not a stupid gamble. (He's 19th on the list of sires and there's a video of Henry on the news page).

But then again I wanted Sean to breed Xena to Le Prince des Bois or Duke of Hearts xx

I defintely recommend Sean going w/a TK or TK-approved TB (sure wish AFR would be presented for approval). I say steer away from Hunter. Something just not right there. Looked him up on USEA - no record, so went to his owners name (Wendy Webster . . . aka W2) and pulled her record. No record w/the horse http://useventing.com/competitions/profile-rider?rider_id=58120

Plus, he's Holsteiner and while they definitely can jump this is the TRAKEHNER forum (Hunter can go find dates on a HOL forum. LOL!)

No suggestions on who to breed to - but if memory serves, AFR was presented to the ATA at the Toronto Convention in 2006/2007 (think it was 2007? only one I've ever missed) and was turned down.

I've actually been trying to reach AFR's owner...no response to COTH or email messages, so who knows.

I've got a ton of stallions that I love, and I want to use them after her first foal. For the first we're going to definitely use fresh. I've got a few stallions in mind, but I'm having no luck reaching most of the owners. It's very frustrating as I'm sure you all know.

One person that is super responsive is Jean, and I've been considering Stiletto*Ps*. I feel like Xena and he could produce a really nice mover and a super jumper. I want to see him in person again before using him though as I haven't seen him without a saddle on so just want a better idea of his conformation. Really like all the offspring I've seen though, obviously including Chloe!

One I started thinking about because I saw my old mare Pirouette again is Hilton...that became a look at all the Galten Farms stallions and leaning towards Heling. I do love Hilton though, he's awesome in person. I also really like Hope of Heaven, I'd really like to see what his offspring look like.

Here in Florida I like Tate a lot, I'll have him on my list for the future as more offspring get out competing. Same with Tagaelen. I like his bloodlines a lot and I love his front end over fences. One I'm really leaning towards is Ballzauber. He's quite a mover and a good jumper. I think he'd be way further along with a little less turmoil in his life to this point. He is super THICK, so probably not Xena's first boyfriend. All his foals I've seen are fairly light, but they're all out of Thoroughbred mares.

I wish that Zauberruf hadn't been gelded...I saw some video of a few of his foals from 2010 earlier and they look unbelievable as three year olds. Darren has a few undersaddle already also, and they look exceptional.


So next years short list:
Stiletto*Ps*
Ballzauber
Heling
A Fine Romance
Sea Accounts

Future- if available
Abdullah*Pg*E*
Fleetwater Opposition
Bonaparte AA
Come Close
Halimey Go
Titulus
EH Sixtus
Tagaelen

Tanzdiva's foal by Ballzauber is massive. Incredibly sweet, but is easily going to be over 17hh and has bone like you wouldn't believe. So if you think Xena needs lightening up, I'd wait to see what she throws first.

TennantSportHorses wrote:
So next years short list:
Stiletto*Ps*
Ballzauber
Heling
A Fine Romance
Sea Accounts

I think this is a v. good list but marked Heling off b/c he throws WAY too tall (even Galten Farms notes he's "#2 in the breed for increasing mare's height") & you'll wind up w/a 17.2h horse which could create soundness issues.

One thing further - the CA issue. Know you'd like to produce an approved stallion & foal w/b required to have a clean test if SO hasn't tested clear (Xena does not require a CA test b/c both Taz and Symphonie tested clear).

I'm guessing Jean has either already tested or w/b testing Stiletto *Ps* as he carries ox in 2nd generation but you definitely need to ask. Ballzauber carries Burnus in 4th (as does Symphonie). Both Windfall and Sym tested clear, so it's somewhat less concerning but this is a recessive gene so it's possible for Windfall & Sym to test clear and BZ to carry it. That's what makes it so important for all stallions to test.

The ATA has asked all SO's w/horses carrying ox, AA or Shagya in the first 3 generations to voluntarily test their horses. As a mare owner I will not breed to any stallion who cannot provide proof of a clear test - regardless of whether ox, AA or Shagya is in the 1st or 8th generation; this is a recessive gene and not confined to just the first 3 gens. It cost approx. $200 and is ridiculous to make this cost the responsibility of the MO's (which it will be if they want offspring by untested stallion eligible 4main studbook).

While the likelihood is very slim, the recessive CA gene IS present in the TK breed; we know this from the UC Davis testing - just not which lines carry. I tend to agree w/Maren that this likely will not be carried thru the AA's (and CA is NOT present in pure TB's) since we've found it not to be in 2 of the most prolific AA's: Ramzes AA (at least not in Prelude by Mozart or Tzigane *Pb*) or Burnus AA (thru Windfall *Pg*) but for $200 the stallion owner can be sure & MO's can use that stallion w/confidence.

I remember reading in the Chronicle forum that A Fine Romance had been turned down by the ATA jury. Given his record of producing, I felt the ATA should have given him the benefit of the doubt.

So why was Zauberruf gelded? I've been interested in him.

sallyannmaas wrote:I remember reading in the Chronicle forum that A Fine Romance had been turned down by the ATA jury. Given his record of producing, I felt the ATA should have given him the benefit of the doubt.

So why was Zauberruf gelded? I've been interested in him.

Sally I don't know the answer on either. Call Darren re: Z. As far as AFR not sure he had many offspring competing @ their current levels (maybe he did; just don't know the timing). Turns out it's one of those deals like Il Sixtino - who got turned down and in 1 of his 2 live covers during quarantine sired Downtown Harrison. We missed the boat on that one, for sure.

Since I have been hacking around the sporthorse community for decades, it seems to me that the Trakehner is becoming the "go to" horse for eventing. I know a well known hunter trainer/judge who does not like Trakehners for hunters. One of her clients ended up buying one because the gelding did not jump "like a Trakehner." Her words.

Traks do not move like Dutch horses for dressage.

Open riders in the competitive SoCal circuit go for the breeds that are big flashy movers, i.e. Dutch, or horses that move with a lot of knee.

Their students also want flash though often they cannot ride that horse, but they buy it and the trainer gets to show it.

The Great Recession has run many breeders out of the business, at least among my contacts, so my insights on the buying public may be out of date. I've toyed with the idea of trying to breed my Itaxerxes mare this year, and from my experience in the market, I'd be looking for an eventing sire as that demographic is most open to Trakehners, JMHO.

Just a little aside, and recent anecdote. I sold my half-Trakehner gelding in January to a very good dressage barn. The ads all gave his pedigree, the Westphalian stallion, Pablo, as sire and my Trak mare, Lucy Mae, as dam. Since people are not using Westphalian as often in the search engines on sales sites, I put Hanoverian in a tag line. Pablo is an improvement jumper sire for the AHS but he is not technically a Hanoverian. The buyer, who had purchased my horse, remembered him as a Hanoverian.

I only had USEF documentation on Dylan and she wants to register him. So I told her choices are Half Trakehner or SWANA, and sent her the application forms.

The buyer's goal is competing at FEI in dressage.

AFR is a miss for the ATA for sure. He was younger in Toronto, and his get weren't there yet - now they are. I would consider him.

I would also check out Stiletto for sure, has the size, the blood, the type and the offspring. Thanks for the Sky link Kim, and I also agree in terms of blood - he is a good match, more leg, more refinement, but only 1 foals so far, the other I saw "inside" mom .... I just saw him about 10 days ago on a trip to the West Coast and am working on videos from our "party" - boy that was fun. He looks fantastic, did a nice sort of GP freestyle/Pas de Deux with another one of Natalie's horses, then still in double bride and top hat, started jumping. Show concluded with him all dressed up as Don Juan in red and black with a dancer (literally, a girl in a red dress) next to him and they were wrapping and unwarpping a huge black cloth around his head and body ..... the horse never missed a beat. If his career is sidelined he can always join a circus ;-)) loved his attitude, super mind on the job. And Natalie did a fantastic job, but what is new.
Btw, Sky#s full brother Virginian Song is coming for approval next weekend (ZSAA) and here is a recent image: http://www.zsaa.org/zsaa/database/bilder/135030108.jpg

Now back to stallions - Halimey is a great choice, for all obvious reasons. Plenty of young offspring around to look at, he left Germany with some 70 foals on the ground, the first under saddle since 2012. I adored Sea Lion in CA, but I'm not sure he will produce like a TB - he is the most non-TB looking TB I've met so far, with the exception of Hand in Glove xx.
Bonaparte with excellent frozen semen way high on my list for a mare like Xena, I said that before.
I am totally on the fence regarding Duke of Hearts xx - that is one MAJOR pushed stallion and if he doesn't deliver as a sire soon, he's just another nice promotion job. Pretty much all the articles about him in the news are paid for ... it just doesn't say "ad" across the top. I find that pretty sad actually. If German TB, you would probably like to check out Ituango xx in Marbach. And speaking of - Laurel is available frozen in the US (that's the only Stan the Man xx son in the world, and out of a direct Pregel daughter!).

Hilton, no go. Ballzauber ditto - size and bone. Plenty in both.

Sea Acocunts I agree with him too, nice look overall. Titulus would also be high on my list - excellent bloodlines, and his offspring here in Europe are stellar performance horses, despite his very few breedings before he left for Canada.

And take a look at the bloodlines of stallions crossed with the rest of Xena's family to see what worked - Arogno, King Arthur, Herzzauber, Hockey, Schwadroneur (more Arogno) all produced performance tested (premium) mares and competition horses at upper levels in dressage. Sym's dam was bred to "jumper" blood as well - with the direct TB Bonito xx she produced a 1.35m show jumper, with Inster Graditz (Bonito xx - Kassius) another one, with Schwertträger (son of Hilarius, by Tümmler, and dam sire Kunzit with more TB, Welsh Minstrel xx) the CCI*** eventer Schalk. I think it's safe to say that this line can go either way and with Taz already in the mix, careful stallion shopping can really produce something outstanding!!

nice "problem" to have, Sean